Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. Welcome everyone to Love, Sex, and Leadership. I'm uh here for another fun conversation with a dear brother. I love, admire and appreciate in the world. We've known each other for several years. I think that the first time we connected was being on his podcast many, many years back and uh in a relationship with a dear friend of mine, and we get to See each other at different times in the world and always enjoyable to have a, a conversation and dive into uh into his world. So welcome everyone. This is uh Kevin Orris. Nice to have you here, bro. So to see you, Aaron. Always a pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. So, I, I'd say let's just, uh, you know, dive right into it in terms of, uh, you know, this, this last week, there's definitely some Shit that's gone, gone up in the world of politics and, and uh the American vibe. I've recently put out a couple of posts and, you know, trying to really, from my perspective, showcase the place of Trump being kind of the ultimate shadow projection that is being placed upon the world, an opportunity for people to grow, evolve and expand with everything they hate about him out there in the world. And I'm curious from, from your side of it and the, the different streams and avenues that you're um Both uh kind of. Going into as well as kind of seeing multiple sides, uh, I'm curious what your perspective of him coming into the changing of American, um, Politics and what that means as well as what that can potentially mean for um we as an American people as well as a global tribe. What's some of your take on what's happening? Yeah, it's super fascinating. I mean, I'm very interested in like the markets and economics and blockchain. Like I've been into that for many years. So I naturally follow politics because of their interplay. Um, I think it's been a, it's it's been a fascinating season on 2024 Earth, right? We're like the season finale right now. Um, you know, what, what's so interesting about it to me is like, yeah, like. Trump is this outcast kind of character. He's not a career politician. He's a very bombastic kind of guy. And he's been, like, you just got to step back objectively. He's been more villainized and like projected upon, not just by like normal people, but like by institutions, right, and legacy media than anyone ever. So to me, that raises some alarms. I'm like, wait, what's going on here? Is he actually that guy? Uh, I don't know him personally. Um, but What, what I see and I wrote a post about this, it's like, you know, I've never registered to vote, I've never voted. I don't have a horse in the race. I'm, I'm observing it. Um, I think it's interesting when people are like, you're not voting, as if voting is the only way to like change the world, right? Um. What I'm seeing is like it's a giant Rorschach test or like a psychic mirror. So the way you felt about this election, especially the people, you know, we have mutual friends in our communities, people, you know, doing shadow work, men's work, women's work. Um, working with medicine, like wanting to like become the best versions of themselves, getting so tangled and riled up, almost like a, you know, like a toxic relationship, where like, this person who's like so well put together and intelligent and emotionally sensitive and pathetic, all of a sudden is like a raving lunatic when they post about politics, right or left. So to me it's like really like, I think you nailed it. It is this big shadow projection. And to me, it's all about your relationship to authority. It's your relationship to masculine authority, it's your relationship to sovereignty and like, do I feel free to do X Y Z? And then it's like a parental projection as well. It's like, is mommy and daddy in this government kind of pedestal, how are they affecting me? And I think a lot of people are, are fair enough, rightly upset because they care deeply about these social issues and things, which, hey, I think that's great that people are getting riled up and passionate. Um, what people forget is that the government works for the people in this country, the Constitution, right? So they should actually be afraid of us saying, hey, you're fired because they work for us. They're public servants technically. Yeah, you know, I thank you for that perspective and I, I think, uh, I'm sure even us talking about this from some of the viewpoints that I've seen coming in of, oh well, you're too You know, white Anglo-Saxon men speaking about, you know, the politics and, and this, and, and all of that kind of, um, what is being called upon me is like, you know, gaslighting and everything else, and you don't actually have an opinion because you're not one of the minority and, and all of that. I'm, I'm curious what you're, you know, from both a perspective and more important than anything, as well as just the reality of what, uh, framework of understanding that people are in. And is there a capacity for someone to actually get that shadow piece? Because that shadow piece is important, but, you know, as a white man in the world, I guess it's going to be cast upon us as well. I'm curious your thoughts. Yeah, you know, the, it's all about like race, class, and gender. Those are like the hot buttons, right? So there's the racial inequalities, there's the class, like wealthy versus poor. And then obviously the gender dynamics have gone pretty nuts this election cycle. And these are old, you know, these are, these have always been the kind of like little levers in history within a population or civilization, race, gender, and class. You know, so it's nothing new. I think it is interesting that You know, and I'll speak, I'll speak bluntly, like I think a lot of it unfortunately is ideological hijacking and like it's like religion almost like uh in my men's group and we do these philosophy symposiums often invoke like. The new religion, you know, used to be Christianity, right? The West, you know, the European vision of the West and Christianity came to America, and then there's all this spread of empire. Now it's like materialism and science, you know, trust the science, we figured everything out, trust the the experts. That's a religious organization, right? It's a priesthood. And the media has done this with politics too. And unfortunately, some of these ideologies, while I acknowledge the inequality and like people are rightly upset about racial relations, because yeah, white ancestors have colonized and enslaved a lot of brown ancestors, let's say. Like that's, that's a reality. But to bring it into the global conversation now with the internet and memes and TikToks and reels and these little sound bites. And then people are kind of, they're flipping the tortilla. It's like victim consciousness is being empowered. It's like, I gain power and social virtue in my little in-group by being oppressed. Like that's an interesting reversal we're seeing happen. Also, there's a conversation that like, we want to minimize and depedestalize ex-voices, white cis men. You don't get to have an opinion because you did this. It's like. What are we talking about actually? Are we going to go into some kind of revenge reparation cycle where it's like, All right, your ancestors beat up my ancestors. So now you just shut up and we're going to enforce our views on you. And it's like, is that actually what we want to do? Like, I, I'm more of the mind of like, Yeah, there's a lot of wrongs to right. Like I'm not gonna say there isn't. Like, we obviously have a lot of work to do as a species, and, you know, men and women, different communities around the world. We've got a lot of work to do. If we want to create what I want to see on the world, personally, Eaimonia, like human flourishing, right? Uh, Aristotle used this term of like genuine human flourishing in a world that works for everyone. That's the world I want to build with my business, my work, everything I do. We're not going to get there by like going into these revenge cycles of insulting and straw manning each other. We're only gonna do it with curiosity and compassion and reconciliation. Like, I'm real big on like, reconciling and forgiving these imagined or real slights and then getting really curious about that person across from you, who you've been, unfortunately, propagandized and conditioned. By external forces to see a certain way when actually that's just your brother or sister, and then you're much more alike with them than you are different. There's just very polarized things that separate you, right? And it's an intimacy conversation ultimately. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that and the curiosity and compassion really I'm, I'm hearing strongly in that and in this piece. If someone can actually be curious about the world around them, about their partner, about their enemy, about the individual that they have such strong animosity towards, we really can have a change shifting, uh, environment. I'm, I'm would love to hear, you know, these principles of both compassion and curiosity, uh, especially in the realms of men's work. And men kind of opening up their capacity to see a little bit differently and to navigate waters beyond just a penetrative presence. Um, where do you see, especially in the realms of new men leading beyond old paradigms with things like compassion, um, and curiosity, where the, the interplay is between these. Yeah, this is really fascinating. Um, I've been working with this group we had started earlier this year, the men's Academy got men from all over the world in there, and it's really fascinating to hear these men, some of which have zero work and like experience in a men's circle of brotherhood. Others are more OGs and What I'm noticing is like, hey, the old paradigm of masculinity obviously wasn't great, you know, it did a lot of amazing things. It built the world we're living in. So it's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those guys that get called patriarchs and conquerors and oppressors, yeah, there were some bad apples, but a lot of them were just Very strong-willed men that wanted to protect and provide for women and children. That's just a fact in history. Now we can say they had terrible effects, which they did in some cases, and wars and genocide and all this stuff that's happened. It's like We have to like feel that. Like that's a big hard part for men, right? It's like actually feeling the impact and the pain that's been built up. It's generational. The healing that with women, with your wife, your girlfriend, your partner, your mom, your sister, like there's a lot there. And you got to understand, those guys are all operating from scarcity. So if you look at masculine consciousness, how I built the world, it's a zero-sum game. In game theory, it's like zero-sum. There's, there has to be winners and losers, and there's a finite amount of the pie. So I'm gonna get mine, right? I'm gonna take as much as I can. I'm gonna extract and conquer. This worked for a while because the real, there was real scarcity. Our ancestors were like battling nature and each other and had to survive, right? So they made decisions based on that. We're in a post-scarcity world. We're in pure abundance. The amount of natural resources and food and information on the internet and like It's insane. Like I can Uber Eats a filet mignon to my house right now and go do all this stuff. And of course, some people economically aren't there yet, but I believe the whole world's going to get there. We're seeing this in the stats in the third world with their birth rates and their technological advancement, their economies, you know, the world's kind of evening out with globalization. And I don't, I don't believe in like a globalist agenda where everyone should be under one government or something. It's more like, because of technology and where we're at, we're entering a positive sum game. And this is where men can lead in a new paradigm where there, there, there's not winners and losers in the old sense. You just make the pie bigger. You literally practice abundance. And for men and men's work, this is very important for competition, right? You know, I love sports, I love competition. I think it's healthy, but not at the expense of like tearing down other men and your brothers. You're going to see new leaders, and we're already seeing this, right, that are gonna be in collaboration. And they're builders and creators where they're like, hey, I'm gonna build something that works for everybody. There's still gonna be like different amounts of gain and loss, right? Cause the people that do add the most value are gonna receive the most value back. That's just natural law. But we can create a world that works for men, working with men and loving men, and then men protecting and loving women. And then the children that come out of this, they're going to live in a completely different world with different nervous systems and hopefully less trauma. Like that's what I want to see like men's work building, right? Mm, yeah, thank you. The um Yeah, I, I, this whole paradigm of, of men kind of forging the way, um, I mean, it, it's definitely been a necessity. It's been a necessity for the, the growth in the space that we You know, currently live in, and yet, um. What I, there's something I had another train of thought, but that's all right. Um, the, what, what I see as a, as a result with this is that in the realms of, of polarity, what I see men kind of, you know, doing when they're coming into the, the realms of compassion and care and, and, and, and this kind of softness that comes through because that strong, forceful, direct penetrative masculine has been kind of so shamed in many ways that I find, you know, a lot of the men I've come across, and I'm sure it's the same for you. There's a lot of men that are so afraid of standing in their power. They're so afraid of like being the one to stick the sand and the the stick in the sand and sand for what they believe in because so many minorities and so many people are ready to, especially a white man in power, it's like, oh, you know, there, there must be something wrong there. We need to take him down right away because, you know, he's just doing that old paradigm thing. And you know, the result I see and I felt at times it's almost like a walking on eggshell field and and how to navigate that more effectively into our day to day world in a way in which can support um deeper integration, but also men not being afraid of their power. Um, um, I'd love to hear your, your take on this cause this is something it's like we need more of, but there's so men afraid, so many men afraid of stepping into that power. 100%. I mean, this is the meta pattern I see with all of the men I work with is like the nice guy or being a pushover and being too easy to yield and afraid to like be sharp and assertive and and like very masculine and setting boundaries or setting a objective or path. And what's interesting is the women I work with, all of them are craving this from men. Especially women in the conscious community, right? These like Tanrikas, these female entrepreneurs. I work with a lot of like female like coaches and women and, you know, in business or tech, and they're craving it. Like this is the real mind fuck of the mismatch, because yeah, women in the 20th century became a little more masculinized. They entered the workforce, they started being empowered, you know, 1st, 2nd, and now like 3rd and 4th wave feminism. And there's all this stuff happening. There's good and bad and, of course. But then we saw men in the 1960s, like, you know, uh, growing their hair out, experiencing the psychedelics, becoming softer, entering, you know, the mythopoetic men's work movement. And now we have men, yeah, like, unlocking more of their care and compassion and being more inclusive and aware and like attuned, which is great. But you can't go like to the extremes, cause then we have this complete mismatch of like masculinized women and feminized men. Like, all these women. Yeah, they want some more care. They want to be listened to. They want emotional availability, but they also want a man who's a conqueror and assertive, especially in polarity and intimacy, also in like business and things. And I've seen a lot of guys, yeah, because of Me Too, and because of the, the culture wars, like woke movement and milieu that we're in, they're afraid to use their power because as soon as they do, they get, they get clapped down or they get pulled down, whatever. And that's just part of the game. If you're going to use power, If you use it with right relationship and responsibility, you have nothing to fear. And this is what the world needs. It needs men to step into their power and lead, and women to lead and rise with them, and then enter into that dynamic, which in polarity, it's pretty clear cut, right? When like, the masculine and feminine forces come together in a relationship. It's fireworks, chemistry, power, energy. Um, but we need to see this in like a community context and in a government context and like whatever. If you want to go macro, that's the world we want to see being built, and it's gonna require the right use of power, the responsible use of power, extreme ownership and responsibility. You're gonna make mistakes. That's the main thing with men, right? It's like you can't be afraid to make mistakes as long as you're in integrity, which means you do what you say and you're in right alignment and you're willing to like break some eggs to make an omelet. Like a lot of men need to actually go further into that side, not back away from it, right, they've learned to. Yeah, and I remember what I was gonna share before, this, this kind of competition muscle, you know, if I look back in my right now I'm I'm back in Boston area was spending some time with family, and I think, I think about the You know, many years I spent on the soccer field just like really fine tuning that competitive muscle, which was directed towards, you know, winning a soccer match, football match. Um, you know, there, there can be better things to do with the time. And I look back at the lessons that I learned from gaining that competitive muscle as well as the teamwork that came with that. So, I, I also do feel that that we as men can move beyond. The competition into more comrades, into more of a sharing of power. And yet there's something still, I think important with that assertive force to be able to, not necessarily win the game, but to be able to know and have the confidence. Like, I feel like all of the times I spent on the field and the different, you know, um, sporting games, like I have such a Confidence in my being when I show up into something. And I'm not putting that all to the competition I learned on the, the sporting match, but in many ways, like that muscle was very finely tuned by that space. So how would a, would a man who hasn't necessarily have that wants to gain that confidence, but can utilize competition, but without the unhealthy, uh, paradigms of it? Yeah, I love what you said there about sharing power, cause, you know, the kind of legend in Buddhism, and like, I think this is similar with like Christ or these avatars, like, you know, Christ and Buddha being these like great men that changed the world. You know, the, the, the Buddhists talk about the next Buddha won't be an individual, it'll be a songa. It'll actually be a community or like council. And that's a profound sharing of power, and this is what we want to see. And there's also Some streams of this and more like, um, esoteric Christianity where it's like, Christ isn't going to come back as like a dude, it's gonna come back as a consciousness or a field, right? And this is what men you really see, you see this, um, I work with veterans, I have friends that are veterans. You know, the military touches on this. I know you served, um, like maritime, right? So it's like, There's a group consciousness when men have a shared goal and purpose that binds them together with love for each other and brotherhood. That's so healthy. And by the way, as a study, you know, scientifically, women love that. Women love men in uniform, and men that are respected by other men and assert themselves with other men, because that's a very strong marker that they're going to be a great mate, a protector and provider, right? And what, what we want to see is like, turn on your competitive edge, your killer instinct, but put it into the service of the community as a whole, not just, I'm gonna go on Wall Street or join a startup and just get as much money as I can, or, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start this project or whatever and just destroy my competitors at all costs. Like, nobody likes that because it sets up a very, um, imbalanced reciprocity. We're actually wired, it's called like the helper's high, to help, like literally in our brain neurology, we get oxytocin when we help other people and add value, and men have this too, with other men and with the community. So we can totally work with our biology and our design. We're not these like brutal killers who just want to like destroy the earth and like resources. We're actually designed to be pro-social and collaborative. That's the funny thing. It's like the game A, capitalism and like, like winner take all modality. is actually against nature. But it was a necessary stage, just like the caterpillar going into the chrysalis to metamorphose into something more profound and, and into that more abundance paradigm or game B. And men are at the forefront of this. You know, men are the builders and science, engineering, business, politics. They're driving this stuff forward. Now, all those strong men have a strong woman like with them, beside them. That's the thing. Like, women are a huge part of this as well. And, uh, I see this a lot with coaching, right, over the past several years, really since COVID, there's all these women that are just waking up, joining Sisterhood, really diving deep and healing and powering up. And they're like, where are the guys at? A lot of these guys are lagging behind a little bit. Um, the good news is that they just need to step into doing hard things, right? This is why guys love, you know, Jacko and David Goggins and Rogan and the UFC and all these guys. It's because things like martial arts, entrepreneurship, you know, doing hard shit like cold plunging. Um, breath work, whatever. This is how you build testosterone and masculinity and assertion, and you can do that by being a heart-centered man. You don't have to become an asshole like this picture that's been painted of the past, right? Mhm, mhm. Yeah, and I'm not really hearing that that there's a a level of synergy and attunement, uh, being invited for men who are stepping up into power in this way to recognize their own. Innate individual power, but then to be present to see how that power impacts those around them, but to still keep a level of assert assertion moving forward. And yeah, I certainly feel it in a in a polarity world as well. I mean my Um, you know, current beloved who I'm, you know, deepening with. I feel like, you know, right now we're landing this project, community project in Portugal, and between her and another, uh, friend of mine, you know, it's the three of us, and both of them are very strong, assertive female bodies, and, you know, when I'm kind of taking care of things, you can almost feel like there's a part of their relaxation that comes on that they're not used to. It's like exercising a new muscle cause they're so used to being the Get shit done. Let me take care of everything female body. Totally. I mean, women crave this. Their nervous system relax and like it opens neurologically, even with their hormonal system, they're like, their libido, their like care, it thrives when they're in masculine containment and leadership. And that's not a position of less than. It's actually a position of power for women. Um, there are women that are uniquely, like, you know, wired and driven to be very masculine and succeed in that world. Like those women exist. But the majority of women that I speak to, and maybe I'm biased in my bubbles, as I'm sure you might be, these women are all craving this, right? They want to be able to play this game and collaborate with the masculine. And that's, that's the kind of men they're looking for. When I work with women in dating and courtship, you know, they want to get married and have babies with a man like that. They're not necessarily looking for a man who's gonna like worship them and pedestalize them and give away power. Like that's not what they actually want. You, although some of them thought they wanted that and they tried it out. And the results weren't so great. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and in that conversation, I do see, I hear a fair amount of women who have the ideology and the mental framework of understanding that they want the strong, potent, powerful, assertive, masculine to be there, but often what I see happen is once that man shows up. In that it requires her to actually meet a state of surrender that maybe she's never even met before that she might be terrified of. And so what I see happen, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this is that when that guy shows up and then she realized she's has to surrender, she actually comes back even more passive-aggressive towards that masculine that's been showing up just to create separation to keep in the norm and keep inside of her story that she's been holding on to because actually, Shape herself into something new would require a level of of of surrender that I think is beautiful. Like surrender is so beautiful, but so many female bodies in that way can be afraid of it because they've been in the directive role for so long. Oh yeah. I mean this is where the the rubber meets the road and polarity is like um a very strong, grounded masculine nervous system that's in protector provider matches up with a very surrendered feminine nervous system that's in like love and devotion, and it's again, both are positions of power. It's not power over. That's the old kind of like caricature of polarity, right, in 1950s housewife like data's first stage. This is not what we're talking about. And I see this all the time when you meet, even in my own relationship with my lady, it's like, yeah, like, when you step into that, all your beliefs get challenged. We learn from our parents, or past partners. You have to like break through that and enter into like a softness in this conversation between the nervous systems. And it cuts both ways, right? I know lots of women that are strong, independent women. They need a masculine man and suddenly they're like, I don't really care about my business so much anymore. I, I just want to like be in love and be like so juicy and feminine. And it's scary to them. It's a defense mechanism to kind of default back to it or create the separation or reinforce that identity. But it's an, it's an old identity that's not serving, and it happens the reverse too, although I see this maybe less often. Where like a man's like, yeah, I just want this powerful queen and feminine woman. And then they meet her, and then they get shocked into, oh shit, like all the ways they're not showing up. And so it is this kind of delicate dance we're seeing. Um, I, I really, I posted today, I did like a tweet on this, like, you know, men are stepping into power, joining brotherhood, studying history, you know, going back into traditional masculinity, and women are softening, becoming more feminine, and bonding with their sisters, and nature is healing, you know. I see it as very much natural law, like, You're not gonna be able to outwork it. We're kind of coming out of this cycle where we had to go to the opposite extremes to refind our way in this new crazy world that changes every day. Mhm. Yeah, my, my beloved now that she's in the kind of transition out of a very structured, more kind of corporate world that she was dancing in and has been, you know, in this world for a while, but it's kind of been navigating both places and, you know, things have come up recently and I could feel her kind of in her I'm like, babe, like, I got you. Like you're fine, like uh you're, you're held, and she's like. Like I can, I can feel in her words and her essence, like experiencing the layers of her nervous system just like coming in more and more and more. And as a result, like parts of her own, you know, biological systems are now regulating themselves, like she just shared about me recently. She's like, oh my God, like I'm getting, you know, I'm becoming more regular. I'm like, yeah, babe, just we're gonna make some babies and So, yeah, it's, it's beautiful to see when like the, the, the surrendered states of being meet the naturalness of the body, especially for female bodies. Yeah, they're the male and female hormonal status, you know, you can argue that biology is wrong and like we can redefine it right in the modern postmodern mindset, which I think is just ludicrous. But, you know, biology doesn't lie. Um, male hormonal status is about provision and like protection and strength and like leadership and like men thrive in that. The testosterone literally goes up and they become safer, more powerful men for women. And likewise, women in a female hormonal status, their estrogen goes up, they become much more sensitive and attuned and like full of life that like shocked you, and they're not as interested in these like mental, very like logical models. They're much more just like love and surrender and devotion to the man. And then like when those two come together, everyone can feel it, right? Like when you're with your beloved and there's that's like set up. Everyone relaxes around you. Like you, you train other people to that state of like male, female nervous system. It's so beautiful. And we all know what that feels like, even if we only experienced it for a little while. Um, most relationships in the honeymoon phase default into this, but if you can't outwork the patterns, you'll drift back into like that comfort zone, right? Or the defense mechanism. And that's where like doing the work and like having community, men and women's circles is so powerful. Yeah, what, what do you see with, you know, the dating world now? I mean, I feel like what I've been seeing in your posts are kinda going more into the, the expression and, and supporting around the polarity world, which is beautiful. I'm glad that you're doing that. And in the realms of the dating world like I do feel like there's a quickening that happens with with two people with like the honeymoon phase seems to be a lot shorter, like shit's a rising a lot quicker, which I think is great. It's like better to get to the essence. And, you know, in the realms of what we're discussing is like the, the, the place of where polarity really thrives, and when two people are just beginning to meet, it's like It's challenging, I know, for women to really go into that deeply surrendered state right away cause they're like, can I trust him? Is he real? Is he authentic? Like, is he gonna, is he a fucking schmuck? You know, all these different things that come up. And so it's fair enough, you know, and I know a lot of women that have been hurt that way just from trusting too much and like wanting him to be all of that, and then actually the man can't quite hold it. So, Like, I, I guess the, the layers between the reality and meeting initially and where these deeper places of the polarity start to sit in. Yeah. I mean, I, I draw a distinction in my work between like dating and courtship. Like, you know, I tend to work with folks in their 30s or 40s, you know, that have some professional success, whether they're entrepreneur or corporate, and they're kind of done with the exploratory phase, which is beautiful. Like when you're in your 20s or whatever, like you're just kind of like tasting, it's like taste testing. It's like, all right, what kind of woman do I like? What kind of men do I like? And you have all these experiences. Maybe you have a really powerful relationship where you really bonded. But then you fully opened your heart expecting that the dynamic we're describing and then you get hurt because the expectations weren't met. And you kind of armor up for the future relationships because you never want to feel that pain again. But the, the danger of love and the beauty of love is that, you know, to really open your heart, you open yourself up to getting hurt, but that's also where the magic happens. So what I'm seeing, you know, when like, you know, I work with people in dating and like help audit their dating profiles and stuff like that. And you know, the market out there, it's, it's, it's brutal. Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, if you're on dating apps or meeting people on Tinder, Bumble Henge or websites or whatever, like it's, it's a strong filtration system, right? Because you have women on one hand, you know, to paint the extreme, it's like, he has to be 6 ft, 6 figures, have a 6 pack, and have all this together, and like women are very You know, in evolutionary theory, women really drive the market because they're the chooser in the sexual dynamic, right? They're the gatekeepers of sexuality. They choose who to share their body with and who to let in their heart. Whereas men are the ones that gatekeep the relationship. The man has to go first and claim her, right? I want to be with you, I want to date you, or I want to claim you and make you my partner, wife, mother, whatever. And so, men and women are having, like you said, it's a quickening. They're kind of like leapfrogging into this like little arms race, and it's, it's definitely challenging. I often advise clients who are really ready to meet the one, or like kind of practice for the one with the person in front of them. Um, you know, it's more about courting. It's kind of the old school, uh, mentality where it's like, go slow, don't just jump into bed, don't jump into a relationship and go warp speed. Really let each other reveal and find value alignment, you know, cause there's the chemistry alignment, which it's like, oh, he's hot, she's beautiful, and you just like, you just like, go like a magnet. But what you see long term, what determines success in marriages and like long-term relationships is values. Shared values and vision is actually what will carry you the distance. The chemistry and the lust energy still needs to be there. It's still very important. But I think people are, because of hookup culture and how easy it is to just meet a new person like all the time, um, people are really digging deeper. I'm, I'm really happy to report, you know, in my small sample size that People are much more looking for that long-term, uh, courtship and partnership instead of like the fast food intimacy, right? Mhm, mhm. Yeah, then we really get into the, the conversations between, um, you know, polyamory and monogamy and kind of the, the ups and downs between that, you know, I, I've always felt quite strongly for myself, like I, I feel like when I start to get fully met and I can just feel it in my body that I'm fully met. That becomes quite easy for me to naturally just go towards one. And yet, if like, if there's any of my centers that aren't quite vibing and like in alignment or something kind of feels a little bit off, it's like there's a part of me that's like, no, I wanna, you know, keep myself open in that way. And I really felt that this last year with the woman I was seeing for a while, it was beautiful and yet I couldn't. There's a part of me that couldn't fully choose her, and I know that was challenging for her, and I wanted to because we met on all these different like intellectual levels and all these different places. Yet there was a deep like felt sense inside of, no, like that, but something about it doesn't doesn't uh feel right. I'm curious if you've had experiences with that, and especially as a man with felt sense because felt sense is like this in Is more, I would say feminine piece, but it's a bit more wrapped around like the intuition and the feeling beyond just the, OK, she's this and this and, you know, and sexy and, and intelligent and all that. It's like, can I actually like feel a deeper layer that feels fully connected here. 100%. I mean, I definitely had my own journey with this, where, you know, at one point in my life, I was prioritizing like physical looks and chemistry, right? Of course. Like when I was younger. But later on, again, to the value conversation, you know, ultimately a woman most opens when she's claimed or chosen, you know. And this is, this comes up with couples I work with where it's like, when a woman doesn't feel fully chosen and the man's not choosing, he's basically holding back his heart subtly, right? That is such a difficult place to be in because the woman, her body and heart only opens when she feels safe and clean. She's contained, right? And again, it doesn't mean you're like dominated or power over. It means I'm choosing you to go all in. And that felt sense has to be there for the man where everything could be right on paper and all your friends are like, Oh, you're such a great couple. When are you gonna have babies? But the, the essence isn't fully met, like you said. If a man doesn't feel met, You know, I, I think there's a lot of wisdom and like the, you know, David Data, John Wineland kind of theory of polarity where men really value respect. When a man feels respected by a woman and honored, especially in his purpose, he's much more likely to choose her. And vice versa, women, when they feel truly loved and listened to and seen, like seen beyond the physical, they're much more likely to open and choose the man back. And then they enter into that dynamic. But, you know, unfortunately, because of trauma and past relationships, there's a lot of people that are in relationships or even married, and they've never fully done that. They've never actually fully claimed or chosen, even if they have kids or whatever. And you can still get there. It's just, it's really hard to outwork those patterns, and you have to really work at it. And some of us are blessed, you know, to meet someone, and it happens very quickly. We're like the choosing and like the claiming happens, uh, from the jump within the first, you know, 6 to 12 months or whatever. Um, others have to find it later. Um, the hard part is you have to stay in the discomfort long enough to get to that place of meeting, um, and that, that's the hardest part, right? I see with people, especially with men. Um, because it's a fear of commitment, right? For men, it's the fear of commitment, which is perceived often as loss of freedom, right? I'll lose myself and the woman. Cause like me in my past, and a lot of men, you know, I pedestalized women and like fell, fell, right? Not rose in love, and then lost myself, right? I lost my connection to my purpose and power. Because I got swirled up in her world or pedestalized her. And a lot of, a lot of women can feel that and then they lose respect for you. That's kind of the dynamic there. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a um. I think when a man can. Know himself more deeply and you know, this is one of the reasons men's work is so potent and powerful is it's like when he can have those lessons and learnings that that he embodies and then be able to meet his partner in a place beyond the pedestaling beyond the putting in the pit, but actually being met more in a a place of um wholeness. Then, you know, there's actually a place for the woman to lean into. I, I, I personally think one of the areas that creates the most turn off and, you know, the honeymoon phase happens, and the woman sees a man and masculine, and then eventually, you know, some of the man's more tenderness or softness or kind of more ambiguity to start to come out and then there's that shift in polarity, right, where, you know, suddenly now the masculine. And the female and female body has to have some level of capacity to witness without judgment and to be a space holder and not judge and condemn the needy little bitch that's sometimes in the man's body. And men are like, oh, I can't show that. So then they go back into being masculine, but then the woman's like, I can't feel you. Where did you go? You know, and, and like this is this kind of merry go round. I, I guess from your perspective, like this place of, of a man starting to feel comfortable in his emotions, in his needs, in his like Uh this is really fucking awkward, but I know I'm supposed to be here, but I want to run away and go hit the gym, like, what, what he, what are you speaking to this? Yeah, I mean this is the hardest part is like. The woman fully letting go in the sense of surrender, right? Surrender is not like I'm, I lose, I'm weak, I'm a pushover. It's like, I'm fully open to feel everything. Like women are naturally better at that because they're intuitive emotional beings, right? They're like pure heroes. Men, it's, it's a, it sometimes has to be learned. Like when we were boys, it's quite easy. Like our emotions just flow, right? We just express them. But we learn to shield, shield, block, stifle, whatever. And as a man, like a woman needs to feel you, you know, so many women would like rather have a fight with you and feel your anger than feel your passive aggression or your people pleasing. And so a lot of this like no more Mr. Nice Guy stuff when I work with men, it's like, Yeah, learn to regulate your emotions and nervous systems in a good way. And that it doesn't mean you need to be nice and like, like kind of coddling all the time. You sometimes you need to be very strong, and you can just own what you're feeling. It's all about radical ownership. Like, I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling separate from you. I don't trust you. I'm feeling like I can't fully love you because you're not receiving it. This is the real value again of men's work and having brotherhood. Because some of that, yeah, your woman needs to feel it as a man. You need to go into it with her. And it's gonna be messy. It's gonna be fucking uncomfortable. You're not gonna seem like you're put together. And that's OK. She's not gonna judge you based on always being this like perfect macho man or whatever image you have. She just wants to feel your authenticity. But some things you're gonna have to bring to other men, right? Like, and be vulnerable with other men and be like, man, I'm really struggling and like, I need accountability from y'all. I need, I need your advice. And women the same with their women, because otherwise you enter into like a parent child or, you know, client coach or therapist relationship with your beloved and that just kills polarity. So there is a real need to it's all about community, right? We're village tribal creatures and we still are even with this crazy. In a connected world where people unfortunately are more isolated than ever and there's this whole pandemic of male loneliness and this whole conversation happening even in the mainstream where, you know, men with other men and women with other women that then have relationships, that's the power because you are more resourced. Like a lot of men are just under-resourced when it comes to emotion and showing it or feeling it. For sure, for sure. Yeah, I, I, I guess, a personal question for you and your, you know, current relationship and having kind of witnessed you two come together through the years. Um, what was the point where you knew inside yourself that you could fully choose her and show up in that way? Like I feel like different moments happen in the dating world and you're kind of like, yeah, is this good? And like, I don't know if you remember a point where you felt like, ah, like I can. Like, I can fully show up. And was it a point where you felt she could receive all of your love, or was it a point in which like you felt fully like loved by like fully loved by her? Where, where was the point that happened in that for you? Yeah, it's a beautiful question. I mean, for me it happened very soon where I was like, whoa, I was blown away, and for me I'm very much like sapiosexual, so it's like I need the The tantric, like polarity dimensions, which we had, but then the intellectual, emotional, like maturity was there too, very early on in the first like month, I'd say. And I was already like, holy shit, OK, this is different. And I can feel like I'm going all in. And like we didn't, you know, move very slow. Like I'm not really practicing what I preach with that. But again, when you know, you know. Like the rules get broken when there's full alignment, I will say, which happens differently for everyone. It's very unique to individual, but for us it happened quickly. And I definitely felt it like, you know, we met in Bali, then we met dated in Costa Rica briefly, and then I immediately invited her to come back to Texas and LA with me, and I was doing all these events, and we just kind of went in. And even when I was like struggling with work or like, I was like in uncertainty with her, because, you know, we had to travel a lot. We were nomadic, we lived all over the world before we came back to the States. You know, I could be in my messy, like frustration and like, or like, for me, I'm very actually avoidant where I like, I'll just kind of go to my cave. And when I still felt her loving me and just accepting me as I am, it just melted my armor and I was, OK, I just, I can just show up and I can like, you know, in past relationships, I would experience getting judged or like belittled or whatever. Like the, like negative aspect of the feminine, you know, which goes back to the man's relationship to mother, like would come out and I would, instead of hiding or like needing to like create distance or disconnect. I could just be in the discomfort with her. And then she started to open more, which made me want to rise up and claim her more. And then she would open more and it creates this slinky effect. That's really beautiful. So I'm so grateful for her. And obviously, she's in this work as well. She also coaches and teaches. So we had like a lot of tools. Um, but you don't need to be in that, you know, that world or industry to do it. It's just, it really is authenticity and like loving each other's mess. And having a lot of care for like, you know, the inner child and the and the and just the raw emotion. It's just emotion. It's the stories that disconnect you. Raw emotion is actually pure power and can just attract you more. Yeah, beautiful. What I, what I really hear in that is that in your vulnerability and in your tenderness, like your experience wasn't love being taken away and it was actually she or her leaning in to love you in those places that you normally would feel a little bit traction. No, I, I can so much can relate to that, like even, you know, with my, with my partner now. You know, when things come up, I noticed, you know, I have my own kind of similar places where I'm just like, I'll just handle this on my own and the moment there's any place of that, she's like, hey, what's up, you know, and, and, you know, and it's, it's really nothing about her. It's just other things I'm moving through. And just like the place of sharing that and feeling her like expand into being able to witness and hold me in that way and just like to be there to share and I feel this like my my system goes ah. Uh, like I can relax more deeply into this, and I don't need to be the one that's holding 100 50% of the time, all the time, and I actually can allow myself a little bit of Uh, deep breaths and relaxation into it, it's a really, you know, like it's a very soothing, uh, deepening of the nervous system for sure. It's so healing, like you said, it's a relaxed, regulated nervous system, which happens when the emotions just get expressed as they come up and like, like they're identifying or labeling them, being able to ask for what you need, and then get that need met, which is the most healing thing for masculine feminine polarity is Getting the love that you needed as a child or as a younger man or woman from the other. Sex. Like that, that's the most healing thing. And when you find that in a relationship and you're in intimacy and you can be in that, and then feel it being met, the need, yeah, you just melt. There's no more need to constrict or contract because by opening up your heart, you get more of what you need. It's actually the opposite of what the mind tells you when it's trying to protect you, right? Yeah. So if you had uh Trump's little boy here with you, would you have any words to share with him? I mean, marrying Trump is a fascinating one, like Trump's kids seem to be really interesting. I mean, Like what everyone says, like, if you watch his podcast interviews and his family podcast interviews, like all of them, you know, Eric and Baron and all of them, like they say he's actually a great father and he's not like, uh, you know, I don't know if it's true, obviously, but like he's not coddling them and they're kind of the heirs to the Trump empire. Um, they're actually having to like do the work and show up to like earn their their place and things, so. You know, I don't know. I can't speak to the, the power of validity or whatever of uh Trump as a father masculine figure, but, um, I suspect, you know, like, regardless of how people gain power, they obviously have something unique about them and some kind of drive to actually get there. It's not like they just ended this stuff. Um, you know, some people inherit power and they don't deserve it and they don't have the makeup to build it up, but, um, Yeah, I would love to see, you know, Trump's boys or sons doing men's work. Can you imagine that if that was like made public, how healing that would be for both right and left. Oh, for sure. I mean, his, uh, his ex-wife was, I had her, she was one of the speakers in the, in the feminine symposium I ran a few years back. So I'm connected with her, and she does a lot in this field, actually, um, you know, teaching and supporting and Kind of in her own way and, you know, helping people more in the meditative realms and it's, yeah, it's beautiful. I, I really do feel it's like someone of that wealth, like there's certainly some driving part of his soul that's beyond just wanting to gain, you know, power and fame, and there's there, I can feel there's some part of his soul that's wanting to give back and, and willing to take a, a pretty good, you know, projection beating along the way. Not that he doesn't deserve some of it for sure. And, you know, it's like I heard someone saying, it was like, listening to Trump is kind of like grinding your, your fingers down a chalkboard. But it's like, in this situation, I'd much rather have that than some other fucking puppet inside the office. Like, I'd rather have a, a bulldog. You don't know what it's gonna do than just a puppet that's just being strewn around by, you know, the strings being pushed left to right. So. Totally. I mean, I'm, I'm less excited about Trump. Like, I think he's a wild card, obviously. But uh I'm more excited to get about guys like Bobby Kennedy, RFK Junior, Vivek, you know, Elon, Tulsi Gabbard, like the people he's surrounding himself with talking about overhauling public health, bringing like You know, economic strength and like stopping needless wars and all these things. Like, we'll see if they actually follow through with any of this, of course, but that's much more exciting to me is he's surrounded himself with very independent thinking, progressive people that are going to move, you know, health, social, you know, economic things forward, hopefully in this country and in the world is obviously watching and taking notes. And, uh, that's what we want to see, you know, and powerful women, you know. Um, you know, women like Tulsi Gabbard, and I think he just named his, uh, Secretary of State or something as some woman. You know, the big thing is like, oh, he, he doesn't like women, he's just fat chauvinist, but he's actually shown he's, he's partnering with all these powerful women. And, you know, that's what we want to see in government is Men and women in union and community leading together. That's actually the, the real, you know, shtick that want to see, which obviously, Kamala, it's like, all right, first female president, blah, blah, blah. I think that was a great, you know, take, but obviously the people wanted something different. And I don't, I'm not sure that she was actually going to be like this empowered feminine leader like you said, it seemed to be more like institutional legacy, like puppeteering from what, from what I can see, you know, and I'm just Watching what's out there, who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Yeah, this is what we're perceiving and I mean I will say I'm grateful since his election crypto market has certainly gone up. It's a beautiful thing. Obvious. Yeah, yeah. The, the pump and the the trippto world, it's a good thing. Yeah. So what's uh what's what's new and exciting for you on the horizon? What kind of projects and things you're working on these days? Yeah, I mean, I'm very deep in blockchain and crypto. I'm very bullish on it. I think it's, uh, one of the most powerful asset classes and it's going to continue to grow, and obviously we might be entering a real bull market. Um, in terms of men's work, I'm leading the men's Academy, which is like an online membership. We have men from all over the world. Um, we do symposiums, men's work, we do masterminds. And, uh, that's been really amazing. So I'd invite any men out there to check that out. Um, I'm actually getting back into events. I have an event coming up Monday. It's like biohacking and Brotherhood. We're gonna do, you know, cold plunge, sauna breath work, and then do some, you know, men's work together and talk about like dating and approach. I'm really excited to be supporting, um, men in tech, founders, entrepreneurs, coaches here in Austin, um, in person at these events and clients because, uh, There's so many men here that like moved to Austin or whatever from wherever. And there's this big like boom happening here in business and community, but they don't have other men, and they want to team up with men, and they're looking to, you know, find their wife, find their woman. And, uh, you know, there's so, like, in terms of like the dating market, Austin might be one of the best places in the world, if you're into the conversation we've been having. And, uh, I'm really excited to work with both men and women in that capacity and be there. Gandalf in the in in their corner just helping them, you know. Really step into the power and embody the things we're talking about to meet the one like, you know, date, court with skill and practice and then enter into the community with brotherhood, sisterhood. Like that's, that's what I'm here for in my work. So if a woman is seeking a strong, powerful man, that she should move to Austin. a lot of women have and that's what they're looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and, and, you know, I, I hear you share this place of meeting the, the one, and I, I love this, this term and I'd love just to hear more about what that means for you cause I feel like that is something that, um, in, you know, the modern dating world can get a little bit. Uh, not lost, but sometimes wrapped up in the spiritual framing around, you know, twin flames and looking for the one, and people are always on this quest for the one, sometimes for their whole life and, you know, what, what that means for you, especially in the realms of dating. Yeah, I mean, for me, the one is like it's your compliment or partner. This is like an ancient idea in like Greece and like the Mediterranean that like you have a compliment in this life, call it a soulmate to Flame is all these like theories, but there's there's one man or woman out there that like, if you want to have babies, start a family, do life together, like there's a compliment, there's a complimentary beautiful alignment, and it exists for everyone, you know. Uh love works in mysterious ways, whether you believe in a creator or like if God is moving the strings or fate, you know, it happens in mysterious ways. Synchronicity is the hallmark of falling in love. So that's how I really view the one. I'm an amazing dating coach here, Annie Lala, you might know her. You know, I always like her phrase, I didn't come up with this, but like, you know, you're either You're either meeting the one in front of you or you're practicing for the one, but how you show up is the same. And that's really the philosophy I teach and like see working really well, whether you're dating, you're looking, you know, you have options or you're courting someone and it's getting deeper. Like, how would you show up if they were the one, if they were the mother, father of your children, and you're like, teaming up to do life together. You know, that's the really powerful idea of the one in this idea, because That's how we're built as humans, as men and women, we're built to be in partnership, biologically, socially, psychologically. It's where we thrive. Your health, wealth, happiness, well-being, your work, all of it gets enhanced when you're in that dynamic. And most people, I'd say 90 95% want that or say they want that. Um, certainly there are people who are opting out of that for whatever reason, but the vast majority of us, men and women, you know, this is what we want and what we're building for, and it's achievable. Mm, yeah, beautiful. And do you feel like in a lifetime for, you know, philosophically, more or less, do you feel like people can have more than one? You think that, uh, yeah, I mean, there's seasons, right? So some of us will have multiple ones in seasons of life, you know, people get married, start a family, get divorced, and then meet another one. So I, I don't think there's just one singular. Um, for a lot of people, there is. Um, I do think some people, because of the way life is quickened and how crazy things accelerate now, you might go through different seasons of your life, like your 20s and 30s are spent with one, and then your 40s onwards are spent with another one. And both are valid and powerful and loving. So, you know, you don't have to lose hope if like you're divorced or like you're going through a tough breakup right now, like you're going to enter a new season of life and meet your compliment for that season. Like it's very dynamic. Beautiful. Well, I, uh, always enjoy the, the rifts and the flow and the dive with you, brother. I, uh, So, you hold a lot of wisdom and knowledge and uh a deep uh humbleness and, and humility and, and also a drive to keep showing up. I, I appreciate that about you, even if we haven't talked for a while, I know that. You're on your mission, you're loving your woman, and you're, you're being a good man in the world, and that I have a, a lot of uh capacity to deeply lean into and and who you are, so thank you for that. Yeah, brother, I'm so grateful for you for fighting me for this and um yeah, same to you, man. I love the work you're doing in the world and it's just, it gladdens my heart to see men like you just like holding a stand for all the stuff we're talking about and making it real in the world. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, I look forward to. It's Simon Austin. Well, uh, have, have a good dinner and a good catch up and, uh, see you in person and put forward to it. For those that want to find you, what's the best place? Yeah, I'm everywhere. Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, just search my name. I'm at Kevin J Oros on Instagram. You can see all my work there. And, uh, you know, I do a little comedy, do a little meming, and also, you know, obviously share a lot about this work we're speaking of polarity, dating, courtship, mating dynamics and psychology. Um, and obviously, for the men out there, if you want to team up, you know, check out the men's Academy. It's in all my, um, links and bios on my pages. Amazing, amazing. Thank you, brother. Look forward to the next time and uh thank you everyone for listening. This has been another One episode here at Love, Sex and Leadership. See you next time. Mhm