Welcome to the Love Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tonic teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural intuitive and heart centered leader. Hello and welcome to the Love Sex and Leadership podcast. Super excited today to have my friend Naara with us having a conversation around our felt sense in the body and how we can utilize that felt sense, really um rediscover who we are, you know, I was just uh being that I'm American and that there was a big shift this morning in the the political realms of things. I was just recognizing when I woke up and um saw that the Trump win and I was very unattached to the way I felt like it was a lesser, you know, all things were a little bit messed up, but I just want to name this. I felt the relaxation in my nervous system. I felt the felt sense in my body that was like, you know, unmistakable to any part of my mind. It was like, oh, OK, I don't know what that is, but I'm gonna trust that. So I I love that, that we're having this conversation because I, I, I'd love to explore more of how this felt sense in our bodies, navigate our lives. And I know that's a big part of the work that you do. So, I just super grateful to have you with us. Thank you for taking time and um and being here on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Aaron for inviting me and thank you everybody. I'm very uh pleased to be here on, on your podcast. And uh and um yeah, uh talk about uh that sense to the community. It's uh I think it's a super important uh topic and uh I work with father for a long time. So um very, very glad to be here. So, yeah, when, when you, when I share, we talked about the felt sense. Like what does that mean to you? I know you work, you know, in terms of somatic therapy and supporting people with body work and really breath work and coming into their bodies more deeply, but the sense of the felt sense. What, what does that mean? And how do, how do you describe that to someone who's maybe more in the mind, not in the body, right? Um So in the very simple and very essence, uh fence is not a mental understanding is the physical uh uh experience of our being. Uh how, how we are in space, how we are uh with our emotions with our sensations, how we can be able to, uh see our state and, um, it's kind of uh, ability to perceive our well being as such. So, um, I think the importance of fences, uh, comes, uh, because we have been, um, experience different, uh, um, you know, um, experiences in our life and, uh, some of those experiences were difficult or I would even say traumatic and we disconnect from the physical body, we disconnect from some parts of our being because feeling them was too much, too difficult, too painful. And it's basically compassionate mechanism of our uh system for our body to shut down and uh living in this shutdown and being also encouraged by many societies in today's world to be in our head, to be cognitively engaged, to be uh you know, in our, in our mind um limits us to drop uh down into our body. Your specialization on is uh about sex, love and leadership. And uh uh you probably know that leadership just coming from the head is just very shallow when we talk about leadership. Uh today. Uh true leadership is someone true leader who is true leader is someone who is uh have understanding and wisdom of uh of uh and knowledge uh and connection to the heart and, and, and sexuality. So, sex, love and mind together. And um my um approach of fence is help people come down from the head into the heart, into the sex and we, when we can combine these three centers, when we can combine uh being in the body, feeling safe in the body. A big part of the fence is rediscovering safety in the body. And the process of rediscovering s safety can be painful because we have to go through the pain. Uh Like Rumi said, the journey uh out of the pain is through the pain because we will be rediscovering. That uh coming back to those parts that we disconnect can be painful to feel again, the fear, the, the rage, the anger, uh the joy. Uh So, um but it's essential if we really wanna live in this, in this beautiful realm, uh fully uh embodied with joy, happiness, pleasure, pain, we need to really uh keep coming back to the body and that's where far since comes um very useful because we um yeah, we, we're coming back home, we're coming back home into this body, which is not just the physicality, it's more than that. And I love that you bring in this, this piece to around safety. You know, I I'm obviously both of us working in this field of somatics and working with the body. And so many people that, you know, I, I aren't actually in the body and for many reasons, don't feel safe in the body. So I'd love to unpack this a little bit more because what is it like for you in your own journey? Like I I, where have you rediscovered that safety? And, and obviously there's a passion that drives you to support others to do this. So where like in your own journey, have you rediscovered that safety? Because maybe there were times when you, you didn't feel safe and you didn't even know that felt sense, right? Um Thank you. I, I work with the uh body oriented therapy for 25 years. I used to be engineer in corporation and I quit that. And uh I traveled the world learning we meet in some of the Tantra Festival together. So uh that's how we know each other. So that's my passion here. 25 years. I consider myself as a um body oriented therapist, breath worker, body worker. So safety in the body, it's uh for me, it's continuous discovery. Of course, there is time in my, in my life that I uh still touch upon shame or pain or fear. And um it's, it's, it's a journey that um that is ongoing and I think it's a live journey uh because there is um there's a lot of uh experiences that happens to us that form our personality, that form our uh how we've uh our emotional and personal uh structures, how we think what we do, how we look, even how we look depends on what happens to us in the 1st 78 years uh uh time in our childhood. So, building uh safety means that we are able to reconnect to the painful parts, to the parts that has been disconnected uh from those traumatic events. Embrace the part, those parts compassionately. Um And uh bring them into whole conversation, inner conversation. Why those parts has been created? Because those forgotten parts are gifts. Those are defense mechanism that helps us survive. But they were uh they were formed in the age of five or six, let's say now in the age of 47 why those parts still drive my life? Is it necessary? Of course not. So big part of safety is uh creating functional adult. This part of our inner witness that can understand something happens in my life. And instead of blaming on the personal situation, I have a wisdom to look into what's actually happening. Is that trigger really a danger right now. Yeah, because often we perceive something in the present that happens to us thinking this is danger. Uh and we project uh on the situation. So as safety comes with uh the wisdom of weakness of the functional adult that can look down because there's um there's a free personality structure, uh uh psychic structure in our being at first this wounded child, something that happens at a very early age. And on the top, very quickly comes adaptive chart. That's defense mechanism, that's strategy that helps us survive, either it's uh controlling uh disassociating. Um um you know, we draw um uh and, and many, many others. Uh but that helps us to survive those difficult times. And that's a gift in a way, but we cannot come out of that uh structure if we not go one level above which is witness and then witness can uh recognize. OK. Actually, I'm in my defense mechanism. Again, I go into control out of fear. Do I need to stay in control right now in my intimate relationship, let's say, or with my colleagues uh or with my students or whatever. And that helps to reconnect to painful sensation that can come with this realization because there, because then we can shed out the defense mechanism and what's under it's usually uncomfortable sensation and uncomfortable feelings. But we need to create little by little that's safety in the body. And in the beginning, it could be just uh like uh good feeling in, in my hand. That is that is that, that is feels good. And then slowly we build, um we build more and more of this uh embodiment and allow and an ability to stay present with uh uh painful or pleasant sensations in the body because we cannot just uh feel one without the other. Otherwise we meet our humanly experience in this world. Hm. Hm. So I'm really hearing you share, there's a um you know that there's a place of learning how to be with what is and being capable of witnessing what is without the, the judgment and letting our present day rea reality the thing I often share is like, what is that reminding me of in the past or I haven't felt or I haven't dealt with or haven't expressed the, the things that my body has been holding on to. So really uh rediscovering safety is, is utilizing life as a place to uh support us to feel more deeply and feel more um safe in the body in this way. Yeah. Yeah. Just 11 thing I want to add and, and just being kind and compassionate to that, to that part that uh is sometimes disconnecting, it is sometimes not present. It does not allow us to fully feel because there will be some situation that we need to withdraw, we need to withdraw because maybe it's not safe. Maybe it's the environment that it's, it's, it's, it's uh that we need to still be in that, in that old self and it's ok. We don't need to be harsh on ourselves. Oh no, I'm not witness my, my body and my feelings sometimes if that happens, it happens for a reason and, and, and if we, if we uh have this communication with inner critic that comes and say, oh, you or me are, don't stay present again and you are a bad person or whatever inner critic comes in and tells us. Uh and, and so just being just being mindful of those voices because it's a journey that takes a while and on this journey, we need to be compassionate, to um to uh defense mechanism that exist and probably will exist in our life. Um because it's, it's just part of our uh personality structure. So these defense mechanisms are really continuing to show up in a way to sort of provide a level of, of comfort for us to, to kind of mask and to deal with this because that's our way of dealing with our nervous systems. It's effect mechanism so that we don't actually have to feel what's underneath. So it's this rewiring to be able to have awareness of the defense mechanism so that we can drop underneath that and actually begin to, to vibrate and experience that which we didn't experience before. Does that sound pretty accurate in your, in your sense? That sound, that sounds quite accurate to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and curious for you like, obviously there was a very clear point of, you know, coming from your kind of engineer world into this world. Like what was some of the, the, the the driving? Why like something must have been like, OK, I'm not gonna be an engineer anymore. I want to drive into this world to support people in this felt sense. And I'd love to hear more of where that, that shift in moment happened. So this is, you know, it's always interesting to me these, these moments in life where we're like, OK, it's a, I'm taking a new trajectory here. Mm. Um, it's a very interesting question. Look, I, I, since I was 19 at my, um, in my teens I, I felt some pull towards yoga, uh, towards, um, you know, vegetarianism. And we're talking about 9899 in Poland where, you know, III, I, my, my grandmother couldn't, couldn't understand, I couldn't even say I'm vegetarian at the time, you know. So it's not now, maybe it sounds like, like it's fun. But II, I had, at the time I, my grandmother couldn't understand. I, I was visiting her so I had to have meet and throw it away. Uh After II, I left visiting her, she, she couldn't understand what it means, you know. So we're talking about those kind of times. So, uh I was um I was somehow interested in spirituality in some ways that in the beginning was accessible, there was one yoga school in Warsaw at the time. And I, I, and, and, and, and so, um and I think the big, the big opening was 2005 when I went to India for the first time. I went to um I meet Aar, the founder of uh hatha yoga. And I went to Puna to OSHA Center and I start meeting people and I was already learning as a ho holy body work and, and touch. And I discovered that I love touching people. I discovered that touching people uh therapeutically in massage and body work gives me so much fulfillment that I could do it just for all my life and, and being in corporation, I was not giving me that sense. So I already knew that I want to find a way out of it. And it took me 34 years before II, I find a way to segue segue from corporate world to become a body work and travel. India, Asia America, etcetera, etcetera. But I think it was some inner feeling from teenage time that there's something more for me and, and, and the passion to be in service, the passion to and fulfillment to help and support and grow. Uh like um nothing else gives me so much joy. I'm just, just, just working with people through body work, breath work and uh other ways like, like you do too. So, you know, the feeling like uh I could do this job even if I was not paid and it's, it's just, it's just fun for me and joy and iii I thrive when I, when I, when I do that. So it gives so much fulfillment. Yeah. No, I can feel that and, and I love that you've, you know, transitioned into your life into a place to do something every day that you love. You know, regardless of whether you're paid, that's something that I always feel about in that like soul leadership journey. OK? This is what, what, what lights you up, this is what you enjoy and because of that, you know, I can see the smile on your face and the the joy that comes through with that. So, you know, celebrating you in that way. Thank you, brother. Yeah, I, I have a question on your perspective on this because I feel like there's a humanity, you know, with the rise of technology, with the rise of, you know, even what we saw happen through the the COVID days where people kind of separating from actually having somatic touch with one another. And I feel like, you know, Children are more and more in front of a screen and we're going into a society that's actually what I think more and more afraid of like a certain felt sense touch between each other. And there's like this almost fear that's present inside touch because of all the the bad things that can happen. So I would love to hear your perspective on that and yeah, I know this is what you, you know, you dedicate your life to the therapeutic aspects of touch and supporting people in this way. And like, what, what are some of your, your, your thoughts on this? Because this not that I have fear around it. I really do have a deep trust in, in the the trajectory of our lives moving forward. But I do feel that there's a people have are, are so like uh almost longing for touch, but also afraid of it at the same time. So curious about how you feel about this. Totally, I feel similar. Um And I, as you mentioned, there is a certain trust about uh life goes a certain way and people need certain experiences, but it's um it's very saddening for me to see uh many communities and society in general that starve touch, starve intimacy, starve uh connection. And hence many many illnesses that comes like never before we have so many people getting sick of cancer uh of a lot of different conditions that I think down deep is the cause of it is just lack of connection. There's a movie on Netflix called Heal where um they discover they take into this research, few 100 people that um that beat the cancer stage four holistically and they research them and they come out with 12 different points. How w what really worked in their journey. And one of the main and they were of course, diet changing diet belief system, uh implementing herbs, massage, body work. Um But one of the top elements was uh connection, connection and emotional expression. And uh and this is huge. And um there is um there's a beautiful quote from Gabor Mata from his book in his book, Myth of Normal. He's uh he's an excellent uh trauma therapist. Uh Nowadays, uh you can youtube him. Uh I really follow him because he has a lot of wisdom. And in his book, there is one quote that he said that trauma healing happens, not because of the absence of danger, but because of the presence of connection. Mm Yeah. So again, I repeat because this phrase somehow really um uh is, is really bring the essence of, of, of what what we talk about that, that the trauma healing happens, not because of absence of danger, but the presence of connection. And I see all and all again in the trainings where people come with depression with uh so many different conditions. And just because being intimate with each other for a week, let's say, hugging uh sharing, expressing uh touching, um you know, um being honest, uh revealing uh truth, this all really self regulate nervous system to the degree that is really amazing. Like people are uh coming off medications and getting better. And then I'm not, I'm not inviting every anybody just to drop medication if that is prescribed by your doctors. But I see amazing effect of, of, of um of connection and, and, and it's saddening how much we lost it in big, uh especially big uh you know, cities. Um We, we just isolate uh from each other for various reasons starting from COVID or even before before. So I trust that um everybody find their way of healing and find their way to be intimate. I just spoke another day with a friend who is a therapist and also going through something very severe. And she just told me, man, II, I lived in London and, and, and now I move back to Poland and I miss, I, I need to find some community because I get, I'm getting nuts. I'm getting sick. I, I, I'm, I'm just, people are so close minded and it's not really opening, openness for intimacy and it's really, it's really not good for my health. She said, and um, and, and, and, and it's happening, it's happening all around the world and this division between humans, like now you said about Trump winning in America. How big division is that? Uh it divides whole nation into almost into half, half. You know, it's, it's, it's a huge problem and because people look at that from, you know, uh distance. And so uh the work we do is great because uh people need that. Mhm mhm Yeah. And, and I, I really just wanna highlight that, that quote because that speaks like so many mountains and words of wisdom, this presence of connection, this presence of being with another. And you know, the something I often share and training that's like all of you is welcome. And I think when the body can really feel that and the body can know that there's a deeper like landing into this present moment that yeah, I think a lot of people are, are, are almost, it's, it's a foreign state that is so often disassociated in individuals nervous systems and in the, the place of people in their day to day lives of actually being in presence and, and connection with another. So I'd, I'd left it here, you know, just in your own kind of um personal journey with, you know, this work that you're doing as a body worker and supporting people, how, like what have been some of the, both the, the, the beauties as well as the challenges in your own kind of personal relating world, you know, having a partner that's, you know, teaching people about therapeutic body work. I'm sure your, you know, your girlfriend loves, that loves your hands and the the capacity of your healing. And I'd love for you to speak to some of the, you know, the, the, the challenges of maybe what that brings into relationships and, and how you navigate those waters. And this is, you know, I worked with a lot of practitioners and a lot of people who were doing both hands on body work and supporting in this field and this is something that comes up in their own personal life of how to safely navigate these conversations and these pieces more effectively. So I love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. Uh A lot of uh pros uh of course, as I mentioned before, so much fulfillment, so much joy, so much, um just mission. It's, it's, I think it's, it's the mission. And I, and I believe honestly, like if, if we can find the life mission, um it brings uh and purpose, it really brings joy. I, I don't think we would suffer from depression if we have mission and purpose really, really clear in life that this is, this is what I meant to do. This is what I meant to be. We can move mountains, we can find energy, we can just do so much. Uh if, if we really follow that, that passion. So, so just, just that is, I think the best gift that I could uh possibly uh speak that I found my, my passion in life for body worm breath work and, and somatic approach. That's huge. And, and I, and I look around and it's not that common that people uh uh are driven by, by clearly by their mission by and, and so I, I think big part of the big part of the depressions in societies also because people lost their, their clarity, what they meant to do and they're afraid to reach for uh their gifts. They, they're afraid to find their gifts and follow that passion. And um and, and, and you know, like things that are bothering me sometimes or create difficulty is um is combining and, and creating time for the family, creating time for in relationship because I travel a lot. I would teach in many different countries. And so um some time ago, I made priority because work was for many years for me, number one priority more than relationship, even though I was in uh loving relationship somehow it became a priority. And then, and then I looked back and I said, no, actually, even though it's priority, I, I cherish more and I value more the love, the intimacy and, and the family and that also nourish back my work. And, and I found that um that this shifted something in my being also and I create more and more space for uh time off in between. I, I really reduce my work because II I have to take care of um of my, of my relationship and that's for me priority and, and, and I could see that I don't thrive the same without loving relationship when my heart is not engaged in. Uh II, I start questioning if, if is my purpose really serving by the end of the day, what does it serve? OK. It does serve others. But finding that inner fulfillment for me without it. Mm I lost wings somehow. I'm very tribal person. So it's, it's me, it's, it's my personality. And so the, the challenge is how I can navigate how I can bring back uh nourishment, uh relaxation and emotional availability because I think I'm so available emotionally in the trainings that when I come back home there, there's part of me that said fuck, I don't wanna feel anything. I just wanna relax and just you just, just let me be, let me be people. I don't want to process anything and yet, you know, so I am fortunate because I'm in a very beautiful relationship where, where we do process things. But it's not like, you know, it's, it's not like constant drama. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful space that I'm in right now and, and, and my heart is very happy about it. But still I, I look, I look when, when I withdraw because I am tired or afraid and I don't give a space to the closed ones because, because I'm just afraid, I'm just afraid. So those are challenges from the work I do. Mm Yeah. So I'm, I'm hearing that you're the, you're feeling very nourished in your relationship and that's really the driving force. And for a while you were driven a lot by work which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to and actually finding that deeper chords of your own truth of the w is kind of supported you to have a um more homeostasis in the relationship level. That's beautiful. Thank you for hearing me totally. Exactly what you said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, II I think this intersection, you know, one of the things I love to discuss in this, in this podcast is where this intersection is between, you know, sexuality and our leadership and how this, you know, kind of erotic energies. I know you're, you're working with people around their trauma and especially sometimes around their sexual trauma. And, yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts are, especially as a male body in this field that's, you know, helping, you know, sometimes female bodies deal with their trauma. That's often happened from male bodies and people coming in and just some of the, the fears that come up and the, the, the this regulated nervous systems that arises, you know, for myself as being a, a male tuner teacher in the world. It's like there's often 1000 projections on who I am before I've even opened my voice. You know, so I'd love to hear some of what your, your journey has been with that and how you like navigate that with, with a certain level of opportune and needs like what, how you work with those energies. Mhm um Big topic. We topic uh sexuality, you know, we are, we, we are sexual beings. It's a main driven force uh in our bodies, either we are in male or female body. Uh And so, um you know, ii I constantly uh en encounter people that are coming for um the trauma healing because of the sexual abuse. There's so much happening that um is um really crossing people boundaries in a very early uh childhood which which which leaves the big scar on our sexuality and our, on our personality. But um what really helps me out is the safety, creating safety. I'm always very clear about my boundaries as a, as a therapist. I'm al always very clear about how do I speak. How do I uh present the topic. How do I include, uh, everybody in the room? How do I, um, you know, listen to people how, like it's all comes into the safety. But in the same time, we need to, uh, not be over cautious because that's also another part of it that, that people in therapy, especially states because of so much, um, sensitivity to the subject became over cautious. So putting subject out there, uh teaching the tools that uh can be applied in sexual healing. But in the same time, be very clear and creating that safe space. It's something a a and compassion. When people feel that there is a um heart involved in that sexual healing, especially sexual trauma, healing and this sense of compassion and understanding and um and accepting person and how they are. And I'm talking about compassion of understanding because there's different types of compassion. There's this first level of compassion. Oh you are wrong. I am right. I will fix you. That's ego, compassion, you know, but compassion of understanding is where I say, you know what I know your suffering. I know your journey. I know how I could help you. But in the same time, you are perfect as you are and it's nothing to be fixed. I accept you as you are and I will not give you any advice. I will not give you any guidance. You will show me what's your journey. And when people see that there's nothing expected from them. And when they are accepted with their, with their, um with their structure as they are with, no matter how traumatic it is and how much shut down they are, they trust, they start to open up. And then all the projection about who is in Sara? Is he male? Female? Is he, you know, um uh teacher or facilitator or whatever just comes down to. We are humans we meeting on the same level and I see you and actually most of your staff stuff I recognize as suffering for myself and we are on the same boat and we're driving the same vehicle and I'm here just to see and feel together and whatever I can, I can help you uh supporting you in the journey. And that, that is something that I notice really helped me. That compassion of understanding is the crucial aspect that I bring in every training, every session and every um being that I meet in my, in my journey. So, yeah, to compassionately meeting them where they are, regardless of the projected field that they're creating. And that projected field might have a lot of, you know, illusions and a lot of disbelief and a lot of stuff that's being there. And so it's really a place of, of meeting them where they are and in that sense of meeting, uh there's a relaxation of the nervous system, there's AAA deepening into the felt sense that's there. It's almost like you're, we, we're, you're creating or creating a feel that lets them go. 00, I can let go of these projections. I can let go of these thoughts in this place where my mind is always running the show that wants to make you wrong and you're this and you're that and actually being met in the place of the compassionate art. You know, it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Hm. Very. You know where? Because I know you're also working in kind of um with craniosacral work and the, the place of literally how the the brain and the mind is holding on to certain, you know, traumas and this rewiring that happens in the brain to create a relaxation. So those are people that aren't familiar with the, the craniosacral work I'd love for you to kind of speak into how those um literal rewiring. I've only had it a few times but every time IJ the frame of sacred work, my whole nervous system rewired and so good. And it was so like light and gentle and simple. So where does, where does that modality, you know, support with this deeper place of rediscovering yourself and coming into this felt sense. So, yeah, big topic. Another beautiful question by dynamic rate has ze uh it's um always a bit difficult to talk about it because it's um as you said, it's rewiring nervous system. So in essence, we work with fluid tide. What fluid tide is, is that energetic uh um presence in our system between our cranium. The brain stem our, our, our uh mind, our brain and going all the way through the uh spinal cord. And in the middle of spinal cord, there's a main uh nerve uh branch. And then uh we with the supportive, gentle, soft touch, we um allow the self regulative uh s self regulative um wisdom of the body to start coming in place in essence what we do or what happens because we not do anything. Actually, it's not doing uh process. So what we, what's happening, we allow uh people to drop from persons from sympathetic nervous system, phy of light to low tone of dorsal complex, which is uh rest and digest. We start uh stimulating vagus nerve, which is the main 10th cranial nerve that is responsible for coming into homos stasis for self-regulation, safety, intimacy, relaxation. And we live in the world where most of us uh live in a state of, you know, anxiety, stress, fear, uh constantly watching news and, and, and being afraid. What, what's what brings tomorrow like even now after the election that you mentioned in us, many people are afraid. And so living in the state, we are constantly uh in high tone of dorsal complex uh uh which is this association or fight or fly? Being constantly looking for? Where is the danger coming from? Who's gonna hit me? Who's gonna harm me? Where is the danger. And we know it's unrealistic because those d never comes or hardly ever comes in form of some accident or injury that isn't just randomly happening. But most of the time is imaginary coming from post traumatic event. So in, in Ranno sac, we basically bring the self regulation to ventral uh to uh to receptor related vagus nerve and low tone of dorsal complex. And you know, our nervous system uh has two ways. Uh one is um uh motor sensors and then, and then the motor fibers and the sensory fibers, motor fibers are um communication from the brain down into the body. So the brains and signals uh other auto, auto autonomic nervous system for somatic bend your uh hand or whatever response is. So brain goes down into the body and sensory fibers are from the body back into the main computer into the brain. And that is 80% of communication. So by touch, by touch, by craniosacral, we basically start relaxing those physical uh parts of our body. And then we give sensations uh the body to relax and then this sends back signal. OK. Now I can drop, I can relax. And the nervous system is the main system that's self-regulating all other uh systems in the body, blood circulation, uh muscles, uh endocrine system, uh et cetera, et cetera. So by uh by regulating vagus nerve, we saying to the body, now it's time to fix, but you are the master and you fix whatever you feel is right to be fixed. Because the body sometimes, uh we want to fix sometimes things that we are not ready for to be fixed and, and um and people go into healing crisis because they might feel worse than before the healing process. And when that happens, we need to start questioning is the person ready to let go of all this tension that has been created for 40 years. Probably not, probably not because then, because then they like the the the nervous system freaks out. How do I live in this relaxation? It has to be gradual process to slowly allow the body to uh to widen the, widen the neuroplasticity of the nervous system, start self regulating and creating more safety. And that, that neuroplasticity change is happening usually over weeks, months or years in some cases. So I love by dynamic crania sector because because it's really listen, it's about listening and allowing the person to self regulate whatever needs to be done and they are choosing their body wisdom is choosing. So the the the body's wisdom is really taking over to that practice to bring a deeper rest and digest into the nervous system. It's very, very. Yeah. And I, and I have to tell you like from my own experience, I, I am grateful for all my spiritual growth and for all my spiritual teachers and processes I've been done. But I have to tell you looking back from perspective that some of the processes I jumped into were too much for me. And I did it because Fear, fear was a driver for me. I told myself whatever is fear, I jump to grow fast. That was my thinking, you know, like many years ago when I was starting and when I was 30 I'm grateful for it because I really experienced a lot and I could really quickly discover what is my path and what is my gift. But I have to tell you, if you ask me, not all of it was actually uh good for me. I have to tell you. And some of this was very traumatic that I, I still have memories of and I still uh process some of this stuff. So, um yeah, we have to ask ourselves what is good and what is enough and what is safe and um and choose the things that are safe because uh sometimes uh we jump maybe to deep water. That was my experience at least. Yeah. So, II I love that. You say that because, you know, I'm uh you know, last year I was teaching over like 23 retreats. And, you know, I know you're teaching a lot with large group activation spaces. Like many like this group field that we worked with that are supporting people for healing that are supporting people for, you know, rewiring their nervous system to know these things. And what I just heard you share is that even in that, like your intention was, I'm gonna keep jumping to meet fear, to meet fear, to meet fear. And I, I see like, I see a wide variety of personality types that come into these groups. Some people that are like, just like you that are like, all right, I'm gonna do this and where is this intersection between the deep listening and the meeting of the fear? You know, just there, there is a place of really wanting to confront the fear to see what's on the other side of it. And I, I do see sometimes people in meeting their fear, it's like their, their nervous system gets a little overwhelmed and they're learning through that. So it's not necessarily bad. Like what you, I'm, I'm hearing you share, it's not that what you did was bad, but there's a recognition that you kind of maybe overstepped your nervous system. So I'd love to break this down a little bit deeper just in how this applies, especially into the group field that, you know, you and I are both working a lot in. Yeah. Yeah. You know, reading energy is uh is a, is a one of them very important um skill for, for the facilitator group facilitator. And uh and um you, you need to read the field and you need to read from the very beginning. And, and also in my training, I asked to fill up the, the, the form, the registration form when I see uh what is the, what is the people state are? What are the condition? Uh are they taking any medication, et cetera, et cetera? But in general, uh I think what's most important is that and you know, opening spaces and possibilities is what we do for people, either they ready uh to jump or not. Uh But giving the option from very early stage, cultivating the functional adult in, in people, uh giving them options saying that nothing that I provide in this space is obligatory is always true choice. And we can always debate and maybe my truth is not your truth. But there is always a possibility that we can talk about it. So I never put myself that uh kind of in the, in a let's say guru position that you have to do because this is, this is the way no, this is just what I creating and everybody takes as much as they are ready for. So this um permission given to people that they take as much as they want from the very beginning and understanding uh also of their personality structures and the and the functional adult. When they take responsibility for their choices, it's a crucial. And when people get that then uh with the safety in the field and intimacy, everybody uh jump as deep as possible. And of course, sometimes happens that people go a little bit too deep and I, and I and I have to monitor this and I, and I have to approach individually those people and, and check in, hey, how are you doing? Uh uh uh do you need, do you need to slow down? Everything is good? Do you need extra support? Do you need to step, step out for a few hours, be in nature? What's happening to you? And we need to read this energy because for some individuals still, they might not be, have enough maturity of the functional adult and keep jumping to something that is maybe too fast, too quick, too much. And then uh have a conversation with those individuals on the side at some point and, and, and see what, what they go through because because maybe they need to step back and, and, and when people are uh uh when people are seen this way, then, then they start trusting and they start understanding a little bit more what's happening because of them in the beginning of a journey, people might, might, might be so confused or, or, or, or uh you know, um um lost in, in, in the journey. Mhm. Mhm Yeah, there's a what, what I'm hearing you share, which I love is really the, the deep listening that's required from the facilitator that's guiding them into the experiences. And you know, II I love that you bring this in because, you know, I, I recently in the conversation, something I'm gonna be doing next year is like uh teaching people how to facilitate and especially, you know, deep somatic experiencing facilitation groups. And, you know, I re recently had a woman who came to one of, one of the workshops I was teaching at a festival and there was, you know, 7080 people in the room. And I, you know, guided the, the group into really like a deep inner journey of their nervous system to rewire some of their childhood memories and things that were there. And, you know, it was kind of holding and experiencing all of that and, and after she came up to me, she's like, oh, I know how to do this with one or two, but I've never seen it like done with a big group. And I'm like, yes, like, don't do this at home like experience because, you know, it can look, you know, and I for yourself, it's like, you know, you've been doing this for 25 years, I've been doing this for, you know, 1718 years of holding groups. And there's a lot of learning that happens with how to guide people and the things that we're observing and the words that we're communicating along the way. This is really the, the place of where safety arises in that individual because there's a trust, there's a trust that happens in this rediscovering yourself. People are coming into these group spaces into, you know, your, your, your body Institute to discover more of that trust. And it's such a um it's such a fine tooth edge of where that trust can go away and just an instant and you know, that deep transformational moment is also fully present. So that the deep listening that I heard from what you're sharing from both the individual as well as the facilitator is really the important pieces. Yeah. Attunement, I think it's, it's about attunement and um resonance. It's imagine like um like we, we, we are like antennas and uh this being in resonance and being attuned to others. What it means really is refining for years, this radio station that can pick up this subtlety of, of different energies, different uh people. And we, we, we listen, we look uh body language, we pick up energetic cues, verbal cues of people and, and, and understanding of uh psychological structures um and uh personality structures. It all gives us the ability to read the energy. But again, it's like a tuning up at the radio station and picking up those subtle vibrations from others or from groups or individuals. And when we learn from individuals over time, it's much easier also to expand to the group. So o of course, uh great advice you gave to your um students who was impressed by holding space for group, don't do it at home first, learn how to tune in with your radio station. 123 people and then keep expanding. So you can really be refined with this. It's a skill and resonance is the skill we need to uh empty ourselves out and listen without our personality, without putting our ego just being like empty vessel like a chamber of guitar. You know the sound, how the sound is created. There's an empty chamber of the guitar, you hit the strings and the strings vibrate in the empty chamber resonating out. So similarly with the, with the resonance, the learning is how I can be more empty, how I can be more empty. And from this emptiness, listening, it's much more different if I am in my head and I already make a judgment on person and I listen, already wanting to give advice, it will be very different listening then checking in what person really wants to express energetically, emotionally, verbally to the world. Mhm mhm Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure. So I, I, one of the last things I'd love to uh dive into because you call your, your, you know, the work you do the integral Body Institute. And you know, I'm I'm curious if this is connected to some kind w work with integral theory and where this integral piece is is working woven into the felt sense. You know, one of the, the groups I teach with uh awaken as love, we worked a lot with integral theory and kind of, you know, understanding the maps of consciousness and really rediscovering these different places inside. But that's a very specific word that can hold a few different um feelings and tonalities and consciousness understanding. So I'd love for you to just share about like why did, why integral, what was the essence of why New York? So integral part of the Institute integral body Institute is uh embodiment is uh we work uh bottom up what it means. We work somatic um uh with the body and um acknowledging emotions, feelings uh and um um and express energetic expression. So, um and the, the work around uh the school is based on the foundation of it is uh is based on a breath touch, movement, uh emotional expression and uh meditation, mindfulness. Those are main factors that um take place in, in our training. So it's breath work or body work. So, um I, I found, I found, you know, embodiment is so crucial and for instance, is so um important into trauma recovery. And I'm not, I'm not saying this is the only way because uh because working top down with psychotherapy can be tremendously uh uh you know, useful and bring amazing effects. It's, it's great. Um But there's something that um that the body stores its own wisdom and there's so much messages that if we, that we lost uh ability to listen to these little whispers in the body. And the, when we, when we, when we regain ability to listen to those whispers, acknowledge them express um follow the, the the in our instinct, follow our heart uh based also on our knowledge and understanding without disconnecting the head head is important. And then um then the healing happens a lot. And um and that's, that's the integral part of the school embodiment, right? So listening to the whispers of the body, I uh I appreciate that. Yes. Yes, it's amazing. Well, I uh yeah, I really appreciate, you know, who you are in the world and what you're uh supporting humans with, especially with the the therapeutic body work and helping people get through trauma. And you know, this uh this morning alone, I'm sure there'll be a lot of people and some level of trauma because of whatever is happening on the political economic, financial level. And yeah, I, I um appreciate where your mind and and studies are then meeting into the space beyond the mind, into the body and really helping people navigate that channel more deeply inside. So it's beautiful work that you've done. Thank you so much. And I also admire your work a on uh traveling around the world are in Costa Rica and helping, helping so many people so beautiful work. And anything else you'd like to share before we close, where, where can people find you? Um I think that the easiest way is uh my own website uh Nisar eight at uh dot com. That's my private uh page and also Instagram Yara eight and also uh integral Body institute.com. It's the school uh that offers uh breathwork training, body work training. So uh check it out. Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for taking time on your day. I appreciate you. I appreciate you being a, a fellow colleague and brother on this journey, supporting people. And uh yeah, look forward to continuing to see you out there in the field. Thank you so much and, and uh beautiful day for everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you all for tuning in. This has been another episode here of love sites and leadership. See you next time.